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Post by firept on Jun 10, 2019 23:07:56 GMT
I have just experienced a dramatic and sudden failure of the rear LH wheel bearing. I would like to highlight the identifying marks on the bearing its KOR FHBC. Please be aware if you have replaced your bearings recently please check the make. Here is a link to the Miniforum where other people have suffered similar problems with this make (http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/topic/265139-wheel-bearings-to-avoid/ )__ The rollers had escaped between the hub and the hub retaining nut it has then jammed between the nut and the hub, being the LH wheel it has a LH thread so its tried to wind the nut further on to the stub axle it has sheered off the cotter pin and striped the nut of all thread, the stub axle has survived. Fit only genuine known makes dont be caught out. Paul. Attachments:
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Post by jockduck on Jun 11, 2019 11:18:18 GMT
Very interesting, I assume later minis have different bearings from the older ones, I think the older ones use angular contact ball bearings. Has a front wheel bearing collapse once a previous owner missed out the spacer between the two races and then tightened the nut as per old style tapered rollers ( tighten and then back off one flat) when I got the car I found the hub nut loose so tightened it, got about a mile before the bearings fell to bits. Also on eastern bearings, I bought a replacement dynamo a few years ago, about $100 which I thought was a good price, did not quite look like the Lucas item but it worked fine, after a couple of years of low mileage use the drive end bearing collapsed, inspection found it to be an Indian bearing of poor quality. I replaced it and the dynamo is still working fine. Jock
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Post by firept on Jun 11, 2019 20:41:27 GMT
Hi Jock. Yes all angular bearings on the rear are now taper type, later models also had a small 'O' ring fitted to the stub axle as part of the improved grease seal.
Its worrying as when I rebuilt the Mini I replaced all the needle rollers in the arms front and back so I wonder how long they are going to last?
Personally I would like to see all of this cheap rubbish just crushed and melted down so that it does not get back on the market again. The 'cheap' wheel bearings I have seen priced from as little as £10.00 up to as much as £28.00 for the same rubbish, now some one is making a nice profit or being done. where as the Timken, SKF and other ISO9001 companies are all around the £40 to £50. Paul
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Post by richard1 on Jun 13, 2019 13:47:55 GMT
Tarija and Santa Cruz, Bolivia
Not saying this is the cause of your failure, but a huge percentage of bearing failures if for not using the right grease, using too much of it, or mixing grease brands and types with previous greases.
Wheel bearing grease needs to meet the NLGI GC-LB protection level if it does not say GC on it, it is NOT for wheel bearings. Either it will melt or will not have the EP protection required.
There are many different formulas for greases. I have excellent clay based greases, Lithium complex greases, aluminum complex grease, lithium, etc. But, even within the brand I sell, mix them in the same bearing and they will either thicken, thin, separate, or some other detrimental action.
Wheel bearings should be packed, and then on install, fill the hub with ⅓ or so of grease. Grease is a sponge full of oil. It lets the oil be pulled out as needed by the bearings. If you don't put any in the hub, the small amount in the bearing will be used up quickly. If you pack the hub, it will not have room to expand when heated, will leak past the seals, and will overheat the bearings.
This is the Cliff's notes version. I've written many pages on the subject.
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Post by firept on Jun 13, 2019 16:09:30 GMT
Hi Richard.
Thank you for the info I cant remember which grease I used now (probably what was supplied in the bearing kit) as it was 3 years ago when I fitted them but the bearings are showing no sign of overheating i.e no 'blue' on face or race the rear bearing appears to be OK, where the outer one that failed it looks as if there was little if any case hardening of the rollers as all the rollers including the ones that are still in place have the surface breaking up but the face is in reasonable condition considering what has happened to it.
I'd like to know what company made these bearings searching does not bring up much information looks like they could be made in India.
Perhaps someone can clarify this point. I was informed that if the bearing has 'NP' at the start of the part number it denotes its built to a different spec than with out the 'NP' i.e bearing type such as AB12345 its the same size but is a different spec to NP AB12345 is that correct?
Just waiting for the SKF bearings (coming from Germany) and Timken's to arrive.
It will be interesting to see what condition the Rh rear is in and then look at the fronts I just dont trust what is fitted now. I'll keep you all posted Paul.
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Post by firept on Jun 13, 2019 16:47:38 GMT
Hi Richard. Update:-
Just looked up SKF bearing grease and :- SKF LGMT2/1 Grease
The LGMT 2 bearing grease from SKF is a mineral oil-based grease with excellent thermal stability within its operating temperature range. This stability makes the grease suitable for use within the industrial and automotive industries.
However it does not say its GC-LB no mention in the spec sheet about GC at all?
ref the bearing that failed if I did not use the provided grease then I would have used Comma High performance bearing grease (BG2500G) to NLGI No.2.
Paul.
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Post by richard1 on Jun 14, 2019 15:28:25 GMT
Tarija and Santa Cruz, Bolivia
While their page says it can be used for automotive wheel bearings, it also says for low to medium load at medium temperature. It does not list a Timken load test. It also says not suitable for fast outer ring rotation or oscillating movements, shock load, or frequent startup.
on the load factor, they show 285 kg, verses 325 kg for a GC-LB grease that I have. My grease that only passes the LB (chassis) spec is 200 kg, so this is somewhere in the middle.
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Post by firept on Jun 23, 2019 17:03:03 GMT
Finally managed to get time to start the repairs (long story ). New Timken rears now fitted good job too as the one that was still 'good' on the Rhs was not and was also about to fail it was very rough feeling and extremely tight they were not like that when installed them. I'm using Red Line CV2 grease from Merlin motor sport bit expensive but if it keeps it going then great the rear wheels now feel so smooth. Just started on the front wheel bearings I dont think they were failing but not sure of the manufacturer, they were bought at the same time as the rears from the same supplier the new ones are SKF nice to see that the cups and rollers are matched pairs.
I found when I was taking the front hub off that the cup for the knuckle that the suspension fits into on the upper arm has broken and that will need to be replaced, I'm hoping I can get the old cup out then a new cup and Knuckle fitted without having to take the upper suspension arm out, keep you fingers crossed.
If it wasn't for the knuckle the car would have been back on the road within the day. Paul.
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Post by firept on Jun 24, 2019 20:29:07 GMT
The saga continues:- So today I went to Somerford and bought the odd bits I need to complete the wheel bearings back home by 10:30.
I got the old knuckle joint out bit of a push and shove but all OK of course the lower bump stop rubber had perished yes only 3 years old so I good job I got some today, reassembled it and all went back OK.
Now the Rh side as the bearing was going to be replaced, sure enough the knuckle joint and lower bump stop had gone on that one as well why is this happening?
I had a good look at an old knuckle i.e factory fitted knuckle and compared the replacement that I had just extracted, its obvious the original knuckle is almost completely spherical including the bottom however the replacement was truncated i.e a 'chunk' was missing off the bottom of the 'ball' and it was very rough ( saw cut) so over the few miles it has done it has worn its way through the lower sides of cup where it exerts most pressure.
I took the ones I had just bought from Somerford apart to have a look and see what these were like these were much better they still had a slightly flat bottom but they were machined rounded off nicely not just left with a saw cut. Now I am going to have to look at the rear ones as I suspect these will be the same as the front will it never end! The car is now back on the road with new bearings knuckles etc. I took it for a run wow what a difference it so quiet no rattles or grumbles.
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Post by limby2000 on Jul 15, 2019 8:13:10 GMT
I,m just about to fit my second set of steering arm rubbers in 6 years, that,ll be the 3rd set if you include the set on the original steering arms. This may not sound a lot on a mini, however my car has done no miles, its been in a dry garage, although not heated, not open to the elements. My project is now finished and checking it over and find faults prior to mot test. These rubber items are rubbish, my last astra diesel had 244,000 miles on it it and i never replaced any rubber items!.
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Post by firept on Jul 16, 2019 23:41:03 GMT
This is getting silly and potentially dangerous. There needs to be a 'parts amnesty' where suspect parts are binned and then scrapped and not allowed back on to the market ever again. Its making buying parts a complete lottery you have no idea how good they are. One set of bearings I ordered were 'Xpart genuine rover' but inside the box that had 'made in GB' on it were the self same parts that failed on me.
Its not just me look at the Landrover forums they are all complaining as well who are KOR FHBC ? I now suspect the needle roller bearings in the front suspension arms and the rear arms are all this rubbish make, yet more work.
Having said all that just bought a refurbish kit for the alternator (the front bearing on mine was noisy) I was pleasantly surprised to find all good quality parts and only £22.00.
I agree ref the rubber parts that are not rubber any more what can we do. I did get a mention in this months Particle Classics.
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Post by mra-minis on Jan 15, 2020 22:57:12 GMT
This is getting silly and potentially dangerous. There needs to be a 'parts amnesty' where suspect parts are binned and then scrapped and not allowed back on to the market ever again. Its making buying parts a complete lottery you have no idea how good they are. One set of bearings I ordered were 'Xpart genuine rover' but inside the box that had 'made in GB' on it were the self same parts that failed on me. Its not just me look at the Landrover forums they are all complaining as well who are KOR FHBC ? I now suspect the needle roller bearings in the front suspension arms and the rear arms are all this rubbish make, yet more work. Having said all that just bought a refurbish kit for the alternator (the front bearing on mine was noisy) I was pleasantly surprised to find all good quality parts and only £22.00. I agree ref the rubber parts that are not rubber any more what can we do. I did get a mention in this months Particle Classics. This is something I am looking at but funds and time are slowing me down, I am looking for a 3ph hydraulic pump (with tank etc) to run my moulding press then I cam make samples to be tested...
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Post by firept on Jan 16, 2020 0:16:33 GMT
Hi Martin. Interesting to see what you come up with . Has there been some sort of legislation regarding compounds used in rubber? Its not just the car industry but recently when servicing a Revox A77 tape machine the pinch roller which should be rubber is suddenly not any more! Its just gone hard and lost all compliance, it was only replaced about 3 years ago. When new they would last for years (unless worn out). Paul.
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Post by mra-minis on Jan 17, 2020 22:20:03 GMT
Hi Martin. Interesting to see what you come up with . Has there been some sort of legislation regarding compounds used in rubber? Its not just the car industry but recently when servicing a Revox A77 tape machine the pinch roller which should be rubber is suddenly not any more! Its just gone hard and lost all compliance, it was only replaced about 3 years ago. When new they would last for years (unless worn out). Paul. Hi Paul, No legislation that I am aware of, I think its down to cost, people want quality so what happens is companies make quality parts that are more expensive then the cheapo rip off companies then sell their garbage as "quality" and up the price, then most people will pay more thinking they are quality but they aren't and those customers who are ripped off are then left disillusioned and rightfully annoyed, the companies that sell the best quality then suffer because of this... My plan is to make some samples to test, ie daily cycle in a freezer then low temp oven and once passed then test on vehicles... but its down to cost, this all takes time and money to set up, so it won't be a quick thing, I would be interested in crowd funding the project but not sure how that would go down with people.... of course the items would carry my logo to make them harder to copy.
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