Leaky Oil Canister Can the Oil Filter Be Improved?

[Admin/Founder 2]

As Many of you already know we have had Boris off the Road for a couple of Months being rebuilt,well today he was put back together and started first time

Then started Leaking Oil despite not having a leak before he came off the road

We never touched the Filter Bowl whatsoever and theres no damage or distortion to the filter bowl,housing or any of its componants but it just developed this leak

I cant help but wonder if the Filter Bowl and its Componants and Seals could be re-engineered to provide a failsafe so that its virtually impossible for it leak?

Im thinking if somebody was to manufacture a thicker,wider seal with a groove in the centre the oil pressure then has to force itself up and around the inner and outer wall to the seal before it can get out rarther than just force itself out sideways

If your not sure what i mean a Windscreen sits in a channel if water leaks past the rubber it has to leak around the glass and uphill to get inside

If the Filter Seal had a similar profile the Oil would have to leak uphill inside the Canister,around the lip,downhill under the rim of the Canister then uphill to leak out

At present if theres a Microscopic Gap it just forces its way out

I think a better Canister arrangement could be engineered so rim of Canister and flanges of O rings and seals overlap each other making even the Highest Pressure Oil virtually impossible to escape

Any Ideas or Comments?

we need an Engineer Here,a Man Who Can.......

Martin?

Huggz
Jodie

[dan]

i was told that if u put some thick grease round the edge it will help seal???

[Admin/Founder 2]

Thanks Dan
i cant help but think there must be a better design though?

granted 45 years ago when AP designed the Transmission and their Sister Company Purolator Designed the Canister design that was seen as the solution to the problem

But 45 years on surely the canister could me manufactured with barriers to get up and around to minimise leaks?

The pressure can be intense if it needs to withstand 150psi surely in this day and age something could me re-manufactured,re-engineered to withstand 300+ psi?

Looking at these seals they are pathetic when you consider the pressures they have to come with

Im not saying there arnt ways to minimize leaks using the componants of this 45 year old design but surely a design could now be improved to make sure they don't leak full stop even if subjected to pressures considerably higher

[jockduck]

Good evening, This is getting interesting, there has been several owners write on this subject and without pictures I can't understand why its happening, I have never had any filter leak problems with Otto(68, 998) Is this problem with newer cars? has there been a change in filter bowl design?
The design is a very common one used in dozens of types of engine, I know when reverse is selected the pressure is boosted, have any leakers tested their filter oil pressure? possibly a problem in the valve block raising the pressure too high.

Jock

[manuel]

When I did my first oil change in 2004 I found TWO filter gaskets in the groove and one stuck to the canister housing, they were very hard and brittle, the deepest one was compressed to half normal thickness, but the cannister was not leaking at all, I dug them out and cleaned everything, I warned a friend about my find when he bought an auto Mini and he ALSO found multiple old gaskets on his, I don't know if peope thought two was better than one, or they saw the gaskets in the box and thought they were all supposed to be used ?. I don't feel a need to re-design the cartridge type filter, BMW, VW, Mercedes have been happy with the system, and many new cars are switching from the spin-on to our system.

[mra-minis]

The canister leaks are almost always down to not fitting new O rings at one end or the other.

[limby2000]

During the rebuilding of my engine and gearbox I have been addressing any possible oil pressure (pinch points), basically trying to make the oil flow through the block better. I have identified the alloy angled oil filter coupling as one place. The port in and out have now been opened up with my dremel, and basically (flowed), its yet to be seen if this helps at all, but in theory it should lower the pressure inside the can. I,ve also applied this to the oil pump by "cleaning up and flowing" the non moving parts of the pump.

[mra-minis]

Please note until I can purchase the MRA-Minis URL I can be contacted on [e-mail]

Hi Terry,

From first principles we can deduce that pressure within a system is equal at any point within that system.

This refers to pipework etc, so the pressure at your canister should not change, however when it starts to move, this changes because of the following.

The "pinch points" are referred to as "K" factors and will be any feature that alters the flow from a straight pipe, the more "K" values to enter in to the equation the more the impact, bends, "Tee's", sharp edges, pipe transformations etc.... so anything you do to help the flow by reducing the sudden change will help.


However the question remains, why is it leaking ? the canister can take 200psi with ease so should not leak unless it is damaged in some way, the most common is over-tightening of the canister retaining bolt, this causes the "flat" end to distort and become concave. The only real remedy to this is a replacement canister.

Remember:

The canister end must have a perfectly flat section for the seal to work on.
The seals must be renewed at each filter change.
The torque setting for the bolt must be between 8 & 10 Lbft of torque.

[limby2000]

Perhap place the canister on a pane of glass or mirror to see if it sits flat all round. Just a thought also if the retaining bolt has cross threaded, the bolt then may be off centre in regards to the canister seal face.

[mra-minis]

Please note until I can purchase the MRA-Minis URL I can be contacted on [e-mail]

I have never tried the glass "trick" you could try adding a little oil to the canister end and watch as you press a piece of glass on to it... it should disperse across the entire flat surface.

If anyone tries it let us know how you get on ?

[richard1]

I agree there should be a better design. I fought with mine, partially because the filters I bought had the wrong seals and they kept slipping up and around the canister. I opened up the groove to take a flat seal, but it still doesn't seal (now from putting too much torque on it - getting a new canister).

The other day I toyed with looking for the flow rates and then a spin-on filter that would work, but not being a machinist, it would probably cost me a few hundred dollars to have someone make the head.

I have 48,000 oil filters in my warehouse and have to fight with this one.

[mra-minis]

Mar 15, 2016 0:26:52 GMT richard1 said:

I agree there should be a better design. I fought with mine, partially because the filters I bought had the wrong seals and they kept slipping up and around the canister. I opened up the groove to take a flat seal, but it still doesn't seal (now from putting too much torque on it - getting a new canister).

The other day I toyed with looking for the flow rates and then a spin-on filter that would work, but not being a machinist, it would probably cost me a few hundred dollars to have someone make the head.

I have 48,000 oil filters in my warehouse and have to fight with this one.

47,999 .... you must have sold one in the last 13 hours ?

How many canister type filters would be able to cope with 200psi and above ? I am guessing they would be hydraulic..... would you be able to cross reference the element material and other characteristics ?