Is the Master Kit everything I will need?

[auburngator]

I am ready to get the parts together for the rebuild of my 92 Jap Mini auto box. I have been in touch with jpat and they are getting me a quote for the "master rebuild kit"

This will supposedly contain "all gaskets , seals , sealing rings ,friction plates and steel plates. And also a complete set of brake bands"

I guess my question is, is  that everything I will need?

I am a long way from parts and do not want to get into a situation were I am half way through and figure out I don't have something I should be replacing. I know there are going to be things I will not know until I am inside the box, but my philosophy is, I am keeping this car for a LONG time, and want to do all I can to make it as bullet proof as I can. If there are bits that may need to be replaced, then I would rather know about them now.

I am not familiar with this gear box and will be relying on the kindness of fellow Mini lovers here in FLorida for the expertise I will need to get it done.

I am sure that before it is done, you kind souls will be tired of fielding my questions.

As always I appreciate everyone's patience and expertise.

[firept]

First I am no expert and there will be others on here who can comment better perhaps but I have within the last year or so rebuilt a box from scratch.
If your engine and box are sort of still working then before you start replace the oil with new and a new filter run the engine and gearbox up to working temperature then drain and start work...why?  Because you will be working with a reasonably clean inside of the box.

It should be OK there are a few other items you might need but until you get the box apart and can see what is worn or not its difficult to say. Your biggest problems will be the refitting of the front clutch as you could do with the tool to do this ...however if you are tight and think you can do it then use some shim sheet steel something like this:- www.repco-tech.co.uk/assortment-25 so that you can 'encase the seal and piston and slide it into the housing without damaging the seal. There are tools available have a look on ebay.co.uk


The box is reasonable to work on just make sure its clean on the outside before you start work.
Work on a good strong bench with plenty of space lots of self seal bags from Walmart, permanent pen to wright on the bags, buy a cheap digital camera and keep it to hand take lots of photos (they cost nothing) before and after you take things apart even if you think you wont need them....you will!

I use paint brush cleaner to clean parts down if you dont have a parts washer, use a trigger spray gun stolen from the kitchen and fill it with :-https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klean-Strip-1-gal-Brush-Cleaner-GBC12/100269885   usually works fine.

When you take the box apart after removing the torque converter (only take out 3 of the blots to fit the remover!)  carefully check the Gearbox Drivetrain Gears, these are the three that are behind the cover one sits on the end of the crankshaft one is the intermediate and the bottom one is fitted to the input shaft of the gearbox drive train.
Its the gear that fits over the the crankshaft you need to carefully check, they are fitted with a phosphor bronze bush lining and 2 things can happen they can crack and break up and or they can come loose in the gear and 'spin' causing wear and poor fit. You can get new bearings but they need to be machined to fit the crankshaft.
Getting the valve block out can be a 'challenge' unless your a midwife!

The other major problem is getting the assembled top gear set back into the box without the friction plates and steel's dropping down,  you must be very careful as it easy to bend them no force to be used, I found using lots of Vaseline helped 'stick' the plates in place however you have the disadvantage ..or is it advantage looking at the snow outside today of living in a warm / hot climate and Vaseline may be just too runny but what ever you use it needs to be able to be dissolved into the oil when its running.
Take your time, don't rush and think things through.

Best of luck keep us all posted as you go.

[auburngator]

Thanks firept for the great advise. I am lucky enough to have found someone with a some experience with these things, who will be helping me with this project. I have taken your advise to heart.

[auburngator]

I received a quote from Tim at JPAT.


He put in there:

1    LATE APII MASTER KIT 1979 on 

1    BAND, REVERSE, NEW, AP2

2    BAND, FORWARD, NEW, AP2 

I have asked him for a list of what is included in the master kit so I can work out what else I may need. Anything you guys see I am missing?

I guess I am wondering what else I should do while I have it torn apart?
The engine runs strong, but I have no service history. I will run a compression test before I take it out.

What other things should I do? Other maintenance that will be easier to do with the engine out?

Any performance upgrades to look at while doing this? Wish list?

I want to get it as reliable and strong as I can while I am at it.

[69hcode]

Your 92 box will likely have and extra friction disc and steel in the forward clutch. I would order an extra disc. I have a rebuild kit that I got in an open box. It was short one disc but I think that is how they ship from JPAT.

[jockduck]

Another thing to check while the box is apart is the two big ball bearings that support the output drive gear (the one that drives the big "diff" gear) these bearings sometimes spin in the housing and lose their preload, you need some big special spanners to undo the nut(I made mine) I can't remember if the manual quotes a preload/shim setting or not (too lazy to go and check)
One other area which is a problem area is the shaft sealing on the forward clutch probably only a problem on earlier boxes the later ones have a beefed up shaft, the early shafts wear where the two seal rings run and even new rings will break, the grooves must have sharp square shoulders or the rings jump out and break. The nose of the F/C shaft can wear and its bush in the governor cover which causes loss of oil pressure to the clutch.
Not sure what kind of drive to the main oil pump a 92 has, if it has a spline/spider it can also wear but the pumps are very good,
The valve blocks need care when stripping but probably worth while, use thinners or something similar to clean varnish if any on of the valves do NOT use abrasives.
Do later boxes have some sort of oil feed to the inner needle roller bearing of the idler drop gear? older boxes don't and the thrust faces on the gearbox wears and burns the thrust washer.
Thats enough for now, good luck
Jock

[limby2000]

The jap boxes being the late boxes, should have 3x frictions in both forward clutch pack and top/reverse pack. As mentioned by firept cleanliness is paramount. What was the issue with your current gearbox?.

[auburngator]

Thanks for all the great adviser.

My current gear box does some juddering on take off, but once it is going, it slips like crazy going into top gear. When you start and it is cold the first two or three shifts are OK then it starts slipping. I imported this from Japan in November and have no service history. It was sipping when I got it. (maybe why it was so cheap)

I have done all the stuff recommended to me here on this site. oil changes and linkage adjustment, it is just worn out, best I can tell.



One other thing, what else do I need to order to have around for this job?

New exhaust gasket, but what about other bits I should change while i have the engine out?

[69hcode]

Sounds like the top and reverse clutch is slipping. Or valves sticking. 

[auburngator]

Mar 1, 2018 23:29:55 GMT auburngator said:

I received a quote from Tim at JPAT.


He put in there:

1    LATE APII MASTER KIT 1979 on 

1    BAND, REVERSE, NEW, AP2

2    BAND, FORWARD, NEW, AP2 

I have asked him for a list of what is included in the master kit so I can work out what else I may need. Anything you guys see I am missing?

I guess I am wondering what else I should do while I have it torn apart?
The engine runs strong, but I have no service history. I will run a compression test before I take it out.

What other things should I do? Other maintenance that will be easier to do with the engine out?

Any performance upgrades to look at while doing this? Wish list?

I want to get it as reliable and strong as I can while I am at it.




I am getting ready to place my order with JPat and will be ordering the above with:

1 LATE APII MASTER KIT 1979 on


"The master kit contains all gaskets , seals , sealing rings , friction plates and steel plates.



It does not come with the top or bottom pressure plates in the clutches."



1 BAND, REVERSE, NEW, AP2



2 BAND, FORWARD, NEW, AP2


Anything else y'all can recommend to get at the same time?

[auburngator]

Is there anything I need to do for the torque converter? Any parts I will need?

Excuse my ignorance, I am unfamiliar with these systems, I have always worked on cars with standard gear boxes.

[robertm]

Torque Converter Removal

I learned from forum member stu and his mistakes.

I don't recall anything in the Hanes Manual warning about needing to be at TDC before you remove the torque converter or even to remove the bolt. But I read stu's post and saw the pictures of how he had to use a ginder to cut the torque converter from the crankshaft.

Sadly due to third party online picture hosting the pictures are gone.

And as was mentioned earlier, only remove one bolt from each paired bolt set.



Robert M

autominiregister.proboards.com/thread/1455/feel-free-learn-stupidity

[auburngator]

robertm,


thanks for the heads up. That kind of advise makes this forum invaluable.

Thanks to everyone for the advise. I will be bombing y'all with questions in the months ahead as I undertake the project.

[auburngator]

I stepped up an ordered the parts from JPAT for my Mini. I look forward to this undertaking. I have had this problem since I got mine from Japan. It will be nice to just drive it, and not worry about the gearbox falling out at any moment.

[tonyerwood]

I just bought one of the Master Service Kits from JPAT and it contains six clutch plates, three for each clutch.

I looked up the instructions for removing the torque converter in the BL workshop manual, and Section Aa.4 (6) for the 1100/1300 (same for the Mini) says "Knock back the locking tabs and remove three equally spaced set screws from the converter centre. Ensure that the slot in the end of the crankshaft is horizontal. Using Service tool 18G 1086 .......... "
As far as I remember, if the slot in the end of the crankshaft is horizontal, the U shaped washer that fits into slots near the end of the crankshaft will be on its side and so won't drop down and prevent the torque converter from being removed. This is very important !!!

Tony.
Shetland UK.

[limby2000]

I rebuilt the 92 sprite box that i put into my 1098 build, the top reverse clutch plates were fully burnt out.(check some of my past photo,s). It was not that bad a job really, a bit fiddly with the valve block, and getting back in the geartrain, just take lots of photo,s and notes as you go, good luck, i,m sure you,ll enjoy it.