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Post by minikad on Nov 18, 2009 17:08:32 GMT
We have a customer who has asked about running one of our 16 valve engines with an auto box.
We have built two auto engines some/many years back for overseas customers but never found out/heard back how they had worked out. Does anyone have any input on the torque capacity for the later auto boxes and any relevant weaknesses. We are looking for first hand experiences which is why we are asking here.
We'd be building a 1380 at 120bhp making peak torque of 105lb-ft
thanks KAD
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Post by Admin/Founder 2 on Nov 18, 2009 17:42:39 GMT
theres one guy on here building a 1293 i believe ill see if i can get him to come online and share his experiences he really knows his stuff  By the way welcome to the Register  |
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Post by minikad on Nov 18, 2009 18:52:40 GMT
Thanks, an unlikely place for us but I have always been a bit auto curious so not so strange maybe |
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Post by kalkat on Nov 18, 2009 19:26:41 GMT
Oooo-errr "auto curious" I'm not sure about the hydraulic aspects, but I don't think the clutches or brake bandswould stand up to that much torque for very long  There is also the diff pin to consider - plus the unlikelyhood of performance parts fitting the auto differential Emma |
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Post by bode5997 on Dec 5, 2009 15:07:16 GMT
 I did build a 1275 on the auto box about 10 years ago.Due to the fact that tuning parts for auto boxes were none existent,it destroyed itself within 3 months.It could not handle the tourqe,so it blew up.Maybe nowadays,these parts are available.Did i not read somewhere once that,BL tried an auto box for motorsport!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by gretzky38 on Dec 5, 2009 15:49:17 GMT
Would an auto box out of an A+ Metro 1275 not be a bit stronger?? Had one in my green Mayfair I sold last year
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Post by bode5997 on Dec 5, 2009 17:08:14 GMT
 i'm not sure regarding the metro 1275 auto gearbox.The problem being,they build them standard from the factory for a standard engine.If we could dissasemble the autobox and identify the weak points,we could possibly build a box strong enough to deal with tuned engines.No tuning company would invest for such a small market,as for auto's.As we know,the manual box is well catered for.Us auto pilots may have to wait for someone to take this up.Any offers?
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andyn
Senior Member
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Post by andyn on Dec 5, 2009 18:56:43 GMT
There was an article by Keith Calver in Mini Magazine about an Australia Company that had built a 1430 Automatic and did the job by fixing the gearbox faults as they occured, must have got through a few boxes.
Also giving my age away, but I seem to remember a company by the name of Blazespeed producing a short oval racing mini with a manual clutch and an auto gearbox! I remember reading an article in good old Cars and Car Conversions about it in the late 70's I seem to remember it being driven by works BMC rally driver Pat Ryan (I also remember an Allegro too...or did I dream it?)
The short oval car was very quick but I can't remember what problems it suffered.
Andy N
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Post by bnicho on Dec 6, 2009 7:02:55 GMT
I've read that article on the Auto with clutch fitted used in cicuit racing. I think it was online somewhere.
The 1430cc Auto Mini belongs to the wife or girlfriend of an Ausmini contributor. I'll see if I can dig up a link.
EDIT: It was Greig Malaure's GF's 1430 auto, with RE13 cam, modified torque converter and who knows what else.
It delivered 112HP (at crank).
Cheers,
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Post by Admin/Founder 2 on Dec 6, 2009 11:31:20 GMT
in reply to bode 5997,I'm wondering if the 1275 had been mounted on transmission taken from either a 850 0r 998 engine? There was another question on here the other day from another member asking if you could use 998 transmissions on a 1275? Though i couldn't see any reason why not in theory i had read in Mini Magazine that there was a difference  On Page 113 of Masterclass September 2009 issue its states the front bearing bush for a 998 automatic is different to the 1275 the 1275 autobox uses the same as is used in a manual  Whether this suggests there are other differences i don't know? To the other comments by andyn and bnicho i too remember the 1430 being mentioned in Mini Magazine many years ago if we are talking about the same car i remember him saying at the time of writing that car could be driven in drive Though drove quite Happily using 1-2-3-4 gears Has this been modified since to allow driving in "D" Brett? As far as the race version goes Ive heard rumours but never seen or read about one,maybe you could point me in the right direction if its on the internet somewhere? Sounds kewl but cant see the point? If its got a manual clutch its no longer really an Automatic Though i suppose its a tiptronic like most race cars now use but many years before its time Huggz Jodie |
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Post by bnicho on Dec 6, 2009 12:24:18 GMT
To the other comments by andyn and bnicho i too remember the 1430 being mentioned in Mini Magazine many years ago if we are talking about the same car i remember him saying at the time of writing that car could be driven in drive Though drove quite Happily using 1-2-3-4 gears Has this been modified since to allow driving in "D" Brett? Hmmm, I don't remember that being a problem. I will ask Watto. He wrote the article! I do remember the car spat a torque converter at the dragstrip at some point. |
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Post by bode5997 on Dec 6, 2009 13:29:34 GMT
 Jodie,my 1275 engine was well tuned,the gearbox was a 1275 unit,fairly standard from what i remember.You would have to upgrade the converter,bands and most of the internals to get the box to withstand the increased BHP of a tuned engine.The standard gearbox was designed for 40,to 55 BHP.You put twice that through you will get problems.
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andyn
Senior Member
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Post by andyn on Dec 7, 2009 19:17:20 GMT
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sidney
Senior Member
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Post by sidney on Dec 8, 2009 9:35:20 GMT
Now I may have dreamed this but... Im sure I read somewhere that the 1275 ap11 box was a little stronger than some of the earlier boxes. Quite happy to be proved wrong! I am currently running a 1275 spi sprite, with LCB, De-cat, Centre exit fletcher,Induction kit, stage 3 head and 1.5 roller tip rockers. Dont know what the power figure is untill I get to a rolling road in the new year, wont be anywhere near 120bhp obviously!!! It is a rebuilt box, apart from torgue converter. Ill keep you all posted of any mishaps as they happen. MRA do torque converters for tuned minis now I see... mra-minis.co.uk/index.php?cPath=22_116_134 |
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Post by jockduck on Dec 8, 2009 10:31:10 GMT
I thought that the 1100/1300 autos had a 3 plate top/reverse clutch as opposed to 2 plate of the 998s, or at least thats how the parts book shows it
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Post by bnicho on Dec 8, 2009 21:59:17 GMT
I thought that the 1100/1300 autos had a 3 plate top/reverse clutch as opposed to 2 plate of the 998s, or at least thats how the parts book shows it Yes, that's correct. I understand this was carried over to the later 1275 Autos, not sure about the 998's. |
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Post by bnicho on Dec 9, 2009 1:56:38 GMT
MiniKad, I found the contact details for Greig Malaure who built the 1430 Auto for his girlfriend. Greig Malaure Mini Classic 2/27 Hope St Ermington, NSW 2115 Australia Ph: +61 2 9874 7211 Mobile: +61 411 869 438 Unfortunately no website that I am aware of. I've no connection with Greig at all, just passing onthe info in case it helps. The more hot Autos, the better I reckon. If you are going to call them, please note the time zone difference. Sydney is currently 11hrs ahead of the UK. Cheers, |
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Post by notamini on Dec 10, 2009 3:02:16 GMT
1100/1300 not sure about upgrades but they do come with threee r/t plates and 2 fwd plates. However, good news is, fwd can be modified for an extra set. Here is an excerpt. "The second tip comes from Rick Lovett, Service Manager at the Monte-Shelton Jaguar Dealership in Portland, Oregon. Friend and fellow long time America owner John Quilter, told me that Mr. Lovett was very knowledgeable about the AP Automatics, so I gave him a call. Mr. Lovett was very generous with his time and knowledge. His trick is to have the metal plates in the forward clutch machined thinner, so that a 3rd friction plate and second metal plate can be installed. This effectively increases the total friction surface area by 50%. Mr. Lovett's own Mini Moke is sporting an AP Automatic with this modification and is still going strong...after 25 years!" For directions on mod go to members.tripod.com/austin_america/id72.htmlGo to the section on Forward Clutch Modification. I plan on doing this myself in the Spring. |
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Post by mra-minis on Dec 12, 2009 22:56:39 GMT
We are developing a new clutch plate for high performance use we already have Kevlar lined bands, the diff pin is no longer a problem as our modified cross pin will work in an auto The auto unit is in fact a lot stronger than the manual box, however there are a few parts that let it mdown We are working on latest technologies to uprate these parts to take the power.... And yes we are working on a turbo auto ...... time permitting We would be happy to assist |
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Post by mra-minis on Dec 12, 2009 22:58:15 GMT
We already stock parts for the 3 plate conversion |
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sidney
Senior Member
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Post by sidney on Dec 13, 2009 22:15:01 GMT
MRA, you are the kiddies!! Was really glad when I heard about your work with autos. I can now tune and fettle safe in the knowledge that if the 'box goes Finch up, I can rebuild it stronger! |
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Post by mra-minis on Dec 22, 2009 8:16:12 GMT
Our aim is to keep more Minis on the road..... |
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I did build a 1275 on the auto box about 10 years ago.Due to the fact that tuning parts for auto boxes were none existent,it destroyed itself within 3 months.It could not handle the tourqe,so it blew up.Maybe nowadays,these parts are available.Did i not read somewhere once that,BL tried an auto box for motorsport!!!!!!!!!!!
i'm not sure regarding the metro 1275 auto gearbox.The problem being,they build them standard from the factory for a standard engine.If we could dissasemble the autobox and identify the weak points,we could possibly build a box strong enough to deal with tuned engines.No tuning company would invest for such a small market,as for auto's.As we know,the manual box is well catered for.Us auto pilots may have to wait for someone to take this up.Any offers?
Jodie,my 1275 engine was well tuned,the gearbox was a 1275 unit,fairly standard from what i remember.You would have to upgrade the converter,bands and most of the internals to get the box to withstand the increased BHP of a tuned engine.The standard gearbox was designed for 40,to 55 BHP.You put twice that through you will get problems.
