|
|
Post by limby2000 on May 30, 2020 6:38:48 GMT
After rebuilding both my engine and gearbox, i have this issue with flickering oil light, i have an oil pressure gauge and when cold i have a healthy pressure of 75-80 when idle at start up, when warm i still get 40-50 psi driving along at 2-3 thousand rpm, the issue only becomes evident after a 30 minute drive and i select Drive or Reverse while stationary, then the light flickers, if i put it in neutral the light goes out. All gearbox seals were changed, cam bearings changed, engine temperature is never hot and gearbox drives perfect with no flaring at all. Am i losing oil pressure somewhere, the only thing i never changed were the bands, as they were good, oil pump was within tollerance, and idea,s.
|
|
|
|
Post by jockduck on May 31, 2020 11:21:58 GMT
Hi, Interesting, I am about to fit an engine oil pressure gauge to my auto so its good to know what pressures I can expect, what pressure do you get when the oil light flickers? I always thought the auto oil pump was big enough to supply any eventualities.
Jock
|
|
|
|
Post by limby2000 on May 31, 2020 12:23:27 GMT
It only does it when in drive or reverse when i,m holding on the brakes, never when cold, it reads about 10 psi then, but if you put it in neutral, it goes up to 15-20 psi. The engine temperature never goes about normal even in heavy traffic.
|
|
|
|
Post by puddingmobile on Jun 1, 2020 12:04:17 GMT
I had a similar problem in mine. Turned out to be junk stuck in a passage drilled in the main pressure regulator spool. Cleaned it out and reassembled and no more issues. Could be plenty of other things though like loose pipes inside or a seal torn on install. Just an idea.
|
|
|
|
Post by limby2000 on Jun 2, 2020 18:30:29 GMT
Yeah, i did speak to you before thanks, i guess i,m gonna have to bite the bullet and pull the engine, its weird it only does it after about 30 minutes drive. Got 3 weeks off after next week, i know what i,ll be doing  . |
|
|
|
Post by notamini on Jun 3, 2020 0:29:09 GMT
I've had that problem forever. If the car will idle and not stall and you have enough oil pressure, I don't care. 100 rpm increase or less gets rid of it. I figure it's just a tired sensor. my Austin I had back in the 70's did the same thing.
|
|
|
|
Post by limby2000 on Jun 3, 2020 19:56:41 GMT
Its just annoying, its only when its run for 20-25 minutes the oil light flickers and not when in neutral, it happens when idling in drive or reverse, i wonder if fitting an oil cooler will help ,as if the oil gets too hot, although the temperature gauge is barely on normal.
|
|
|
|
Post by puddingmobile on Jun 4, 2020 0:34:27 GMT
I wouldn't leave it. When I put a gauge on mine, I had zero oil pressure in gear at idle, meaning no lubrication at all. It will eventually cause a failure.
|
|
|
|
Post by notamini on Jun 4, 2020 16:34:50 GMT
He says he has an oil pressure guage. That is why I said If the car will idle and not stall and you have enough oil pressure. I believe at idle the pressure can be as low as 12psi although mine is never below 25psi.
|
|
|
|
Post by puddingmobile on Jun 5, 2020 22:05:26 GMT
Sorry. Yes he did say he had 10 PSI at idle. That's probably enough for lube. That would drive me batty myself though.
|
|
|
|
Post by firept on Jun 6, 2020 9:42:22 GMT
Have you checked the oil pressure relief valve ?
May be worth taking it out check that the seat in the block is clean no debris and as a quick check turn the relief spring round the other way and put it back. You may have some crud just stopping it from sealing completely and its bleeding off the pressure. Its a quick and easy check and eliminates another possibility.
|
|
|
|
Post by jockduck on Jun 6, 2020 11:20:01 GMT
I got my oil pressure gauge fitted today, with the engine warm I get 25 psi at idle in neutral and 15 psi with a gear engaged, BUT! I only get 35-40 psi at normal cruising speed, I would be happier with another 10 psi. I will pull the engine pressure release tomorrow but I suspect its the regulator valve in the valve block if that is the case it can stay like that until something more serious drives me to open up the box.
Jock
|
|
|
|
Post by notamini on Jun 9, 2020 17:51:54 GMT
A few days after I posted I purposely watched my oil guage. Even at full temp there was 46 psi at stop in drive. The light was very dim but it was still on.
Idle btw was about 900 in neutral. I have no tach so I don't have any idea what it idles at in drive. At a steady 45mph in 4th my oil pressure is usually about 60-65psi.
|
|
|
|
Post by limby2000 on Jun 10, 2020 4:48:57 GMT
When i rebuilt my engine, it was fully cleaned and i fitted a new pressure relief valve and spring. Have since clean it out with no issues. To cure the problem i fitted the cooper uprade valve ( ball bearing and shorter but stronger spring) and it definately did improve pressure, although it does give me 80-90 psi when cold. I,m off for 3 weeks now with furlough so will pop off front panel to check band clearances, i beleive i may have adjusted wrong when built it (not enough free play) which may be generating too much heat. I also want to fit an oil temperature sender to the front panel. Watch this space.
|
|
|
|
Post by limby2000 on Jun 10, 2020 4:53:48 GMT
Jockduck, to give yourself an extra 10 psi of pressure, either put a 1-2 mm small washed behind pressure relief spring or better still fit a vaiable pressure valve (with knob), i would have fitted one myself but my high-torque starter motor has the solenoid on top which blocks the valve cap.
|
|
|
|
Post by jockduck on Jun 10, 2020 11:24:43 GMT
Hi you must read my mind, I did put a washer behind the spring as an experiment and nothing changed which kinda confirms my suspicion of the regulator valve, the pressure is very well controlled as soon as I touch the throttle the pressure rises the 35-40 mark and stays there regardless of car speed. The only thing that puzzles me is why the regulator has "gone off" to the degree it has. I may look into my spare valve box for ideas.
Jock
|
|
|
|
Post by hennasxi on Jun 27, 2020 17:35:49 GMT
Sounds like the issues I have with mine - I've stopped driving mine completely now as I do not want to risk further damage to what may have already been done.
Mine was the same, decent pressure when cold - unless are air-temp is below 10 degrees, then there is no pressure at all, or it comes and goes like the pump is switching on and off !!
When mine was good pressure from cold (60 psi) it dropped to 10psi on the engine at idle when hot, but there was still about 90-100psi on the gearbox - I'd say 25-30 min run would be enough, so sounds similar to yours. Put it in reverse, no pressure registered at all on the engine.
Anyhow mine is waiting for the engine to be pulled out, I plan to drop a replacement engine/box complete in from a working car, and then get the old one taken apart and rebuilt as a spare for next time !
|
|
|
|
Post by jockduck on Jun 28, 2020 11:39:05 GMT
Hi, I am still investigating my cars issues but one thing I did was to put some more oil in! Your symptoms of the pump cutting in and out could be the pump losing suction, when the engine is cold the oil "hangs up" in the engine and box and you can get low oil level symptoms until the oil warms up and flows back to the sump better. since topping up my sump to the full mark I have a little more pressure but still not more than 45 psi when cold. Still to check the box pressure but I suspect it will be lower than it should be.
Jock
|
|
|
|
Post by mra-minis on Jun 28, 2020 17:35:49 GMT
Sounds like the issues I have with mine - I've stopped driving mine completely now as I do not want to risk further damage to what may have already been done. Mine was the same, decent pressure when cold - unless are air-temp is below 10 degrees, then there is no pressure at all, or it comes and goes like the pump is switching on and off !! When mine was good pressure from cold (60 psi) it dropped to 10psi on the engine at idle when hot, but there was still about 90-100psi on the gearbox - I'd say 25-30 min run would be enough, so sounds similar to yours. Put it in reverse, no pressure registered at all on the engine. Anyhow mine is waiting for the engine to be pulled out, I plan to drop a replacement engine/box complete in from a working car, and then get the old one taken apart and rebuilt as a spare for next time ! I would suggest adding some advance to the ignition, this is the typical result of retarded ignition, I would suggest that your oil gets hot fairly quickly too.... |
|
|
|
Post by jockduck on Jul 9, 2020 11:41:58 GMT
A long running subject, I put a gauge on the oil filter point on my Mini this afternoon, The manual says to take the pressures at 1000 rpm but that was a bit tricky on my own as the car wanted to take off. At idle in neutral I got 82 psi the manual calls for 75 to 85 so good there, in reverse I got 115 psi the manual calls for 115 to 125 so again good, in 1st gear I got 80 psi, in 2,3,4 I got 60 psi but I was struggling to get 1000 rpm without the car taking off with me out of it!
I have done a lot of reading of various manuals and pouring over diagrams and have decided that the regulator valve in the valve block has a primary function to control the gearbox oil pressure or as its called the "line " pressure, the engine oil pressure is secondary. The valve in effect "dumps" excess oil into the engine oil circuit and the engine pressure release valve controls that.
I get 30 psi engine oil pressure at idle in neutral but with "R" selected it drops to 10 psi which is because almost all the oil is being diverted to the gearbox leaving a minimal amount to the engine.
I have a spare engine and box that I ran briefly for the first time last week (on the shed floor) and got 90 psi on the oil filter and 65 psi on the engine which is promising. I took the engine release valve spring from the spare and put it in Otto and got a little more oil pressure but not 65 psi. My suspicion is that there is still something not quite right with the engine release valve .
Jock
|
|
|
|
Post by limby2000 on Jul 9, 2020 17:08:41 GMT
Yep, it sounds like a similar problem i have, ive suspected my engine relief for sometime was occasionally sticking, i,m currently running with the cooper style conversion , but it is giving me a higher oil pressure when cold , 80-90psi at idle, havent had a chance to strip out the main valve body to investigate further due to me having to refurb bathroom and work committments, but i will.
|
|
|
|
Post by mra-minis on Jul 9, 2020 20:18:46 GMT
A long running subject, I put a gauge on the oil filter point on my Mini this afternoon, The manual says to take the pressures at 1000 rpm but that was a bit tricky on my own as the car wanted to take off. At idle in neutral I got 82 psi the manual calls for 75 to 85 so good there, in reverse I got 115 psi the manual calls for 115 to 125 so again good, in 1st gear I got 80 psi, in 2,3,4 I got 60 psi but I was struggling to get 1000 rpm without the car taking off with me out of it! I have done a lot of reading of various manuals and pouring over diagrams and have decided that the regulator valve in the valve block has a primary function to control the gearbox oil pressure or as its called the "line " pressure, the engine oil pressure is secondary. The valve in effect "dumps" excess oil into the engine oil circuit and the engine pressure release valve controls that. I get 30 psi engine oil pressure at idle in neutral but with "R" selected it drops to 10 psi which is because almost all the oil is being diverted to the gearbox leaving a minimal amount to the engine. I have a spare engine and box that I ran briefly for the first time last week (on the shed floor) and got 90 psi on the oil filter and 65 psi on the engine which is promising. I took the engine release valve spring from the spare and put it in Otto and got a little more oil pressure but not 65 psi. My suspicion is that there is still something not quite right with the engine release valve . Jock Erm, does it say have it parked on the drive whilst testing ? This can and will do damage as you are attempting to slip the clutches and or bands which is NOT their design intent. The engine release valve can have debris caught on the seat which can cause low pressure, however that would be more noticeable at low revs and disappear as the valve is lifted off the seat, ie oil flow / pressure is increased with engine revs. I suspect oil seals are getting hard and reducing their efficiency, although I am still not convinced..... 1) what are the oil pressures at the filter head when cold ? 2) same but when oil is hot ? 3) how long does it take the oil to get hot ? |
|
|
|
Post by mra-minis on Jul 9, 2020 20:20:55 GMT
Yep, it sounds like a similar problem i have, ive suspected my engine relief for sometime was occasionally sticking, i,m currently running with the cooper style conversion , but it is giving me a higher oil pressure when cold , 80-90psi at idle, havent had a chance to strip out the main valve body to investigate further due to me having to refurb bathroom and work committments, but i will. What is "the cooper style conversion" ? if its the ball and spring then bin it, it can lead to more damage and is not for road cars, I will explain why later as I need to get somewhere.... |
|
|
|
Post by jockduck on Jul 10, 2020 11:11:52 GMT
Hi, first I think 80-90 psi is scary high for engine oil pressure.
How else can you test for line oil pressure unless you engage the gears, sure you should not be slipping the clutches, the torque convertor should be doing the slipping, How do you do a stall test without having gears engaged?
Jock
|
|
|
|
Post by jockduck on Jul 20, 2020 11:24:11 GMT
Well deciding I had little to lose so I put a 2 mm spacer under the pressure relief spring( spring is 1 mm short on manual Length) and now I have 50 psi when cruising hot and good idle pressures so I'm thrilled, still winter here see what happens when the weather warms up.
Jock
|
|
|
|
Post by mra-minis on Jul 20, 2020 11:53:35 GMT
Hi, first I think 80-90 psi is scary high for engine oil pressure. How else can you test for line oil pressure unless you engage the gears, sure you should not be slipping the clutches, the torque converter should be doing the slipping, How do you do a stall test without having gears engaged? Jock What I meant was, a) you need assistance to stand on the brake pedal and don't stand in front of it, however once the TC has "locked" up the next point will be clutch plates and bands which can and do slip, the pressure test should literally last about 5 seconds and certainly no more than 10 seconds, however a much better test is to drive it with an operator taking notes as it's driven as you can get so much more data |
|
|
|
Post by mra-minis on Jul 20, 2020 11:55:22 GMT
Well deciding I had little to lose so I put a 2 mm spacer under the pressure relief spring( spring is 1 mm short on manual Length) and now I have 50 psi when cruising hot and good idle pressures so I'm thrilled, still winter here see what happens when the weather warms up. Jock Whats the oil pressure when cold ? |
|
|
|
Post by jockduck on Jul 21, 2020 11:05:51 GMT
50 psi
Jock
|
|
|
|
Post by mra-minis on Jul 21, 2020 19:01:01 GMT
Jock are you saying you have 50 psi irrespective of oil temperature at the engine pressure take off ? |
|
|
|
Post by jockduck on Jul 22, 2020 11:11:44 GMT
I originally had 40 psi cold engine pressure and 30 psi hot at idle, after boosting the spring pressure I now get 50 psi cold idle and driving until the oil warms up and the pressure fades to 40 psi when driving almost irrespective of car speed and still 30 psi at idle. compared to a manual mini its a little weird.
Jock
|
|
.
