|
|
Post by 6886auto on Jul 22, 2023 12:21:20 GMT
Even before my Sister installed her rebuilt engine with an unknown transmission into her matic back in November last year I could tell the transmission had issues. For a long time (probably the whole time) I have noticed it having to be revved a lot to start moving, in the last week I noticed it getting worse from what I could tell. No matter how much I say anything nothing gets done until it is broken, especially if a mini club member who knows nothing about AP2s says it is fine.
Well a week ago now it lost all forward gears, reverse still worked so as it was only 500m away it got reversed back.
As is the usual way she only wants the minimum done to get it moving. I WILL NOT do this as one it is just a bad idea and two when it fails soon it will be my name degraded, something I don't need when I had a local mini business wanting rebuilds done before I even finished my first one. I do have ideas of running a business doing some of these services that it is difficult to find people to do. I have all kinds of diagnostic equipment including engine analysers and an old wheel aligner capable of doing 10" wheel alignments. I would do it if I lost my job but that won't happen (wish it would) and I have zero mechanical qualifications so there could be issues there. Back to the rebuild.
The oil on the drain plug was rather grey/silver and putting my hand in the oil flow wasn't much better. I am not certain but I believe there were very fine metal particles in the oil. Most likely for forward clutch is worn but I suspect there will be a lot of wear throughout the transmission components. I am going to open it up tomorrow and see.
Something I recently found is if anyone comes across some medical patient lifts being thrown out they work better for lifting mini engines than actual engine cranes. They roll easy and the up/down movement is slow (and electric). I have two of these that I have collected at different times, the larger one is rated to 205kg. It lifts the engine without issues and is probably capable of much higher weights.
|
|
|
|
Post by 6886auto on Jul 28, 2023 10:44:42 GMT
I still haven't sorted out the argument of doing it properly. I am not far off saying to find someone else to do it, there isn't really anyone locally and it will cost a lot of money but it won't be my problem.
Anyway someone has been into it as the brake bands have been adjusted I believe incorrectly and one has the adjustment maxed out. I already knew someone had played with it as the pressure test port is some incorrect thread.
Not sure why but the governor housing wont come off further than about 6mm. That is one reason I want to pull it apart further, to remove the engine and see why.
|
|
|
|
Post by 6886auto on Jul 28, 2023 10:46:58 GMT
 Attachments:
|
|
|
|
Post by jockduck on Jul 28, 2023 11:32:30 GMT
Yes that band is suspicious, is there any clearance/looseness or is it tight? To state the obvious the cover should just come off, there is only the splines on the forward clutch and a few push in pipes, with the engine off things get a lot more accessible, and you would see why its hanging up. I personally would do the job myself you seem to have gone well so far, with what you have found so far I would suspect there will be more horrors to find. The gearbox is not a high tech unit if you could rebuild the engine then the box is similar in difficulty, I made a number of special tools which helps, if you can wield a hacksaw and welder its not hard.
Jock
|
|
|
|
Post by 6886auto on Jul 28, 2023 13:23:04 GMT
Yes that band is suspicious, is there any clearance/looseness or is it tight? To state the obvious the cover should just come off, there is only the splines on the forward clutch and a few push in pipes, with the engine off things get a lot more accessible, and you would see why its hanging up. I personally would do the job myself you seem to have gone well so far, with what you have found so far I would suspect there will be more horrors to find. The gearbox is not a high tech unit if you could rebuild the engine then the box is similar in difficulty, I made a number of special tools which helps, if you can wield a hacksaw and welder its not hard. Jock There is movement in the band but I think there should also be play before the band starts moving. I am not sure why the governor is not coming off, I don't see any reason it wouldn't. One guess is the lower studs could be bent slightly. I have rebuilt my own auto but this one is my Sister's and she only wants me to fix the forward clutch. Already with what can be seen someone has messed with it and I believe it needs to be fully torn down. It had been sitting for at least five years and it is unknown how much longer. |
|
|
|
Post by 6886auto on Jul 29, 2023 8:14:53 GMT
Upon removing the engine I could see a major issue. The forward clutch had fallen apart. I ended up having to retain it with locking pliers and use a slide hammer to remove the governor assembly.   |
|
|
|
Post by 6886auto on Jul 29, 2023 8:18:33 GMT
There are quite a few pieces of aluminium and some other suspicious pieces. The piston seal has also come out.   Much to my Sister's disappointment the transmission needs to be totally torn apart. The brake bands are almost worn to nothing and have material breaking off as well as uneven wear due to the incorrect adjustment. |
|
|
|
Post by 6886auto on Jul 29, 2023 9:34:57 GMT
Top/reverse plate. Also someone previously has damaged one of the band surfaces so it chews up the band. There is also some small pitting in another.  |
|
|
|
Post by jockduck on Jul 29, 2023 11:09:01 GMT
Congrats on making progress, Its really disappointing when you find damage done by someone who has allowed their enthusiasm to get ahead of their ability. Even if you had got away with just doing the minimum there would be a lack of confidence in the future reliability of the car which spoils the driving. I know its a lot of work to do the job properly but I believe its worth it.
Jock
|
|
|
|
Post by jockduck on Jul 29, 2023 11:11:52 GMT
It looks like the toggles have been put in incorrectly
Jock
|
|
|
|
Post by 6886auto on Jul 29, 2023 11:50:20 GMT
It looks like the toggles have been put in incorrectly Jock I assume the retaining clip is what failed first and the toggles then came out of place but it is only a guess. I notice the retaining clip is about half the thickness of the later ones from my memory of doing my 1986 one. For some reason the governor assembly was "stuck" to the forward clutch, I am guessing it was one of the rings caught on the oil hole. Although surprisingly it was working, it certainly wouldn't for much longer without doing the top/reverse clutch and bands. The O rings for the top/reverse clutch on the shaft are bad as well, the three sections were difficult to separate. There is of course also remains of some blue silicone sealant the someone had used previously on the timing cover. |
|
|
|
Post by mra-minis on Jul 29, 2023 17:34:49 GMT
I can be contacted on sales@ap2.world Ok here is the think with band adjustment.... 1) you are NOT trying to remove ALL the movement, the lever must be adjusted such that there is between 0.040 and 0.080" slack, the band must NOT move at all, once set the lever will move the distance of the clearance and then the band movement from the 3 bosses to the drum, ie loose to tight ! Think of it as being similar to a valve tappet adjustment, once adjusted the rocker will still be able to move to valve full lift, but most of us are simply not strong enough to move it through its full range, the difference is the brake band is easily moved through its complete range. So is the photo correct or not ? it might be, its not impossible to see them like this and still be correctly set. |
|
|
|
Post by mra-minis on Jul 29, 2023 17:36:11 GMT
Top/reverse plate. Also someone previously has damaged one of the band surfaces so it chews up the band. There is also some small pitting in another. View AttachmentI can be contacted on sales@ap2.world That's typical damage for a friction plate ! I have 1000's like that and worse |
|
|
|
Post by mra-minis on Jul 29, 2023 17:39:15 GMT
Upon removing the engine I could see a major issue. The forward clutch had fallen apart. I ended up having to retain it with locking pliers and use a slide hammer to remove the governor assembly. View AttachmentView AttachmentI can be contacted on sales@ap2.world A slide hammer ? you have serious damage in there then ! The reason it fell apart ? more than likely somebody forced it together instead of using the correct tools ! Ie 18G1097 and 18G1094 |
|
|
|
Post by 6886auto on Jul 29, 2023 21:05:38 GMT
I can be contacted on sales@ap2.world Ok here is the think with band adjustment.... 1) you are NOT trying to remove ALL the movement, the lever must be adjusted such that there is between 0.040 and 0.080" slack, the band must NOT move at all, once set the lever will move the distance of the clearance and then the band movement from the 3 bosses to the drum, ie loose to tight ! Think of it as being similar to a valve tappet adjustment, once adjusted the rocker will still be able to move to valve full lift, but most of us are simply not strong enough to move it through its full range, the difference is the brake band is easily moved through its complete range. So is the photo correct or not ? it might be, its not impossible to see them like this and still be correctly set. 99% the band adjustment was wrong. As soon as the lever was moved the band would move. It also had to be slackened off the the internals to be able to be removed. |
|
|
|
Post by 6886auto on Jul 29, 2023 21:07:10 GMT
Top/reverse plate. Also someone previously has damaged one of the band surfaces so it chews up the band. There is also some small pitting in another. View AttachmentI can be contacted on sales@ap2.world That's typical damage for a friction plate ! I have 1000's like that and worse The band surfaces which I haven't pictured is an issue. |
|
|
|
Post by 6886auto on Jul 29, 2023 21:14:59 GMT
Upon removing the engine I could see a major issue. The forward clutch had fallen apart. I ended up having to retain it with locking pliers and use a slide hammer to remove the governor assembly. View AttachmentView AttachmentI can be contacted on sales@ap2.world A slide hammer ? you have serious damage in there then ! The reason it fell apart ? more than likely somebody forced it together instead of using the correct tools ! Ie 18G1097 and 18G1094 Very likely, it seems whoever has worked on it before did not even have the correct pressure tester so they changed the thread or stripped it using the correct one. This mini was full of dodgy repairs such as incorrectly assembled brakes with welded and ground adjustment wedges. With the area I believe it came from they can probably all be called "farm" repairs. The only thing I can think must've been holding it up is the CI rings on the oil feed hole? Luckily there is a parts transmission here of a similar age. Yet to see what condition it is in. |
|
|
|
Post by mra-minis on Jul 30, 2023 10:47:25 GMT
I can be contacted on sales@ap2.world That's typical damage for a friction plate ! I have 1000's like that and worse The band surfaces which I haven't pictured is an issue. I can be contacted on sales@ap2.world I recondition brake bands in house, if you want yours doing let me know |
|
|
|
Post by mra-minis on Jul 30, 2023 10:51:43 GMT
I can be contacted on sales@ap2.world A slide hammer ? you have serious damage in there then ! The reason it fell apart ? more than likely somebody forced it together instead of using the correct tools ! Ie 18G1097 and 18G1094 Very likely, it seems whoever has worked on it before did not even have the correct pressure tester so they changed the thread or stripped it using the correct one. This mini was full of dodgy repairs such as incorrectly assembled brakes with welded and ground adjustment wedges. With the area I believe it came from they can probably all be called "farm" repairs. The only thing I can think must've been holding it up is the CI rings on the oil feed hole? Luckily there is a parts transmission here of a similar age. Yet to see what condition it is in. I can be contacted on sales@ap2.world I started in Agriculture, a lot of the time repairs are done right, but there is a minority that definitely falls within that category  I have a friend with a Mini and he always used to use baler twine for his botchery  |
|
|
|
Post by 6886auto on Aug 8, 2023 10:01:14 GMT
This is the damage that someone has obviously done in the past.  _ It looks like the parts that get used will be a mix of two transmissions. |
|
|
|
Post by 6886auto on Sept 14, 2023 11:35:49 GMT
What are everyone's opinions on bores like this in the servo assembly.  |
|
|
|
Post by mra-minis on Sept 14, 2023 12:43:31 GMT
What are everyone's opinions on bores like this in the servo assembly. View AttachmentI can be contacted on sales@ap2.world That is gum from the oil and is baked on, a gentle scouring will remove it and a pressure check after building the servo assembly will tell you if its ok or not |
|
|
|
Post by 6886auto on Sept 15, 2023 12:29:28 GMT
What are everyone's opinions on bores like this in the servo assembly. View AttachmentI can be contacted on sales@ap2.world That is gum from the oil and is baked on, a gentle scouring will remove it and a pressure check after building the servo assembly will tell you if its ok or not Further down is what I was talking about. I have used a different assembly now anyway. Was probably ok but might as well use the best available. |
|
|
|
Post by 6886auto on Sept 15, 2023 12:30:16 GMT
How does everyone remove the reverse shut off valve in the forward clutch? This is what I find the most difficult part.
|
|
|
|
Post by jockduck on Sept 16, 2023 11:11:06 GMT
I'm sure it has a round section circlip, yes can be a bit of a B******, I tap in a small flat blade screwdriver under the clip to lift one end out of its groove then maneuver out with a pick or another small screwdriver
Jock
|
|
|
|
Post by 6886auto on Sept 21, 2023 9:30:47 GMT
It is back together (not in the mini). Unfortunately reverse seems to be slipping. Sometimes the flanges will move in the reverse direction but very slowly and with no power.
Of course this could be a leak from just about anything requiring almost complete disassembly.
Any suggestions?
|
|
|
|
Post by mra-minis on Sept 21, 2023 17:45:58 GMT
It is back together (not in the mini). Unfortunately reverse seems to be slipping. Sometimes the flanges will move in the reverse direction but very slowly and with no power. Of course this could be a leak from just about anything requiring almost complete disassembly. Any suggestions? I can be contacted on sales@ap2.world First thing is a pressure test |
|
|
|
Post by 6886auto on Sept 22, 2023 0:56:36 GMT
It is back together (not in the mini). Unfortunately reverse seems to be slipping. Sometimes the flanges will move in the reverse direction but very slowly and with no power. Of course this could be a leak from just about anything requiring almost complete disassembly. Any suggestions? I can be contacted on sales@ap2.world First thing is a pressure test I did test the pressures but didn't look at it accurately, only roughly looking and saying it looks a little low but probably ok. I will run it again tonight and get the exact pressures.  |
|
|
|
Post by 6886auto on Sept 26, 2023 9:36:19 GMT
It hasn't been fired up again yet.
I was being rushed when I was assembling everything and think I may have installed the top gear cylinder into the housing with the cutaways away from the holes. The manual says "opposite" the holes and as I was being rushed I wasn't thinking about it and believe I installed it so that the cutaways were away 90 degrees from the holes. Would this cause no reverse?
Another option I have thought of is the fact that the band relining place might have used material with insufficient thickness.
|
|
|
|
Post by mra-minis on Sept 29, 2023 20:34:40 GMT
It hasn't been fired up again yet. I was being rushed when I was assembling everything and think I may have installed the top gear cylinder into the housing with the cutaways away from the holes. The manual says "opposite" the holes and as I was being rushed I wasn't thinking about it and believe I installed it so that the cutaways were away 90 degrees from the holes. Would this cause no reverse? Another option I have thought of is the fact that the band relining place might have used material with insufficient thickness. I can be contacted on sales@ap2.world Where did you get your bands from ? and what makes you think they are the wrong thickness ?? So I know what you are asking what page of the workshop manual are you talking about ? |
|
I have a friend with a Mini and he always used to use baler twine for his botchery 
